hulp bij orchideeen (m.n. Ophrys) van Noord-west Griekenland

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marios giannakoulias
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Re: hulp bij orchideeen (m.n. Ophrys) van Noord-west Grieken

Berichtdoor marios giannakoulias » di aug 25, 2015 6:34 pm

if it is from Ioannina I would say an O. insectifera hybrid with these specifications...

Jan Essink
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Locatie: Elp

Re: hulp bij orchideeen (m.n. Ophrys) van Noord-west Grieken

Berichtdoor Jan Essink » di aug 25, 2015 6:42 pm

I do not think to insectifera hybrid, how many places are there in Greece of insectifera.

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marios giannakoulias
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Re: hulp bij orchideeen (m.n. Ophrys) van Noord-west Grieken

Berichtdoor marios giannakoulias » di aug 25, 2015 6:45 pm

only one known currently (there are collections in herbaria from a few places, reaching as far south as Evia in the past - these places have been investigated and no individuals located during the last 2 decades appr.) and it is at Ioannina.

Jan Essink
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Re: hulp bij orchideeen (m.n. Ophrys) van Noord-west Grieken

Berichtdoor Jan Essink » di aug 25, 2015 6:48 pm

the answer is 3. one known near Delvinaki, one south of Hrisi ( we found) and an other place found by Zissis

Jan Essink
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Re: hulp bij orchideeen (m.n. Ophrys) van Noord-west Grieken

Berichtdoor Jan Essink » di aug 25, 2015 6:50 pm

Theo,

Je vind soms planten die we classificeren als monstruositeit.

gr.
Jan

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marios giannakoulias
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Re: hulp bij orchideeen (m.n. Ophrys) van Noord-west Grieken

Berichtdoor marios giannakoulias » di aug 25, 2015 7:30 pm

Jan Essink schreef:the answer is 3. one known near Delvinaki, one south of Hrisi ( we found) and an other place found by Zissis

thank you this is very interesting. So basically 2 positions in Epirus and one in western Greece at Evritania.

Th. Zeegers
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Lid geworden op: ma aug 24, 2015 5:17 pm

Re: hulp bij orchideeen (m.n. Ophrys) van Noord-west Grieken

Berichtdoor Th. Zeegers » di aug 25, 2015 7:45 pm

This is from 60km. north of Ioannina, I don't think that qualifies as "Ioannina area "?

Theo

Th. Zeegers
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Re: hulp bij orchideeen (m.n. Ophrys) van Noord-west Grieken

Berichtdoor Th. Zeegers » di aug 25, 2015 7:46 pm

By the way, thank you all for your suggestions.


Theo

Th. Zeegers
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Re: hulp bij orchideeen (m.n. Ophrys) van Noord-west Grieken

Berichtdoor Th. Zeegers » di aug 25, 2015 7:48 pm

@Jan Essink

There were 3-4 plants in some 20 m. area, all with these looks.
I haven't seen insectifera (but OK, easy to miss) nor lutea-complex, for that matter.

Theo

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marios giannakoulias
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Re: hulp bij orchideeen (m.n. Ophrys) van Noord-west Grieken

Berichtdoor marios giannakoulias » di aug 25, 2015 7:55 pm

Th. Zeegers schreef:This is from 60km. north of Ioannina, I don't think that qualifies as "Ioannina area "?

Theo

it does actually... what I mean is Ioannina prefecture. The area there is known to have O. insectifera populations.

Jan Essink
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Re: hulp bij orchideeen (m.n. Ophrys) van Noord-west Grieken

Berichtdoor Jan Essink » di aug 25, 2015 9:35 pm

het lijkt een beetje op negadensis die in de NW Epirus (Zagoria) voorkomt

gr.
Jan

Th. Zeegers
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Re: hulp bij orchideeen (m.n. Ophrys) van Noord-west Grieken

Berichtdoor Th. Zeegers » di aug 25, 2015 10:03 pm

Yes, it does look like 'negadensis'.

For what it is worth, have a look at the leaves on pag 282 of Petrou, Petrou & Giannakoulias.

However, the flower is even much smaller.

It is from Zagori region.


Theo

Th. Zeegers
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Re: hulp bij orchideeen (m.n. Ophrys) van Noord-west Grieken

Berichtdoor Th. Zeegers » wo aug 26, 2015 8:47 am

I finally better understand Marion suggstion of insectifera x sphegodes.
You can see that the lip has two highly placed very narrow "side-wings". Easy to miss because these are just above the sepals !

I missed that at first and second glance.

Thanks !


Theo

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marios giannakoulias
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Re: hulp bij orchideeen (m.n. Ophrys) van Noord-west Grieken

Berichtdoor marios giannakoulias » wo aug 26, 2015 9:52 am

these are probably the petals... is there a picture of it with the flower open wide?
It has a general ''resemblance'' to O. insectifera because of
1. the elongated leafs
2. the dark forest
3. the jist of it

It surely lacks the bold petals of O. sphegodes (including ''O. negadensis'')
It would be interesting to see the flower spread flat out, since the petals of O. insectifera are very diagnostic

Th. Zeegers
Berichten: 19
Lid geworden op: ma aug 24, 2015 5:17 pm

Re: hulp bij orchideeen (m.n. Ophrys) van Noord-west Grieken

Berichtdoor Th. Zeegers » wo aug 26, 2015 8:12 pm

Sorry....


If I had known it was that special.....

Theo


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